Microsoft’s Willis says: “Java is not a standard”

Conventional industry wisdom says Java has split people into two camps, and Microsoft is on the opposing side. However, the Redmond, WA, software giant says it is on board with any innovation that catches the imaginations of developers, particularly the way Java has. Many consider the up-and-coming Java a tool to level the playing field against Microsoft, but the folks in Redmond are trying to treat it as only one of several strategic languages.

InfoWorld Senior Editor Bob Trott and Editor at Large Ed Scannell recently spoke at length with Cornelius Willis, product manager for Internet development tools, about Microsoft’s attitude toward Java. One of Microsoft’s resident Java gurus, Willis has devoted so much of his time to Internet development that he is known around campus unofficially as “Cornelius X. Willis” — as in ActiveX.

InfoWorld: Can you explain what Microsoft’s strategy for Java is regarding Windows?

Willis: Our strategy has not changed for a year [since Microsoft licensed Java from Sun]. We are trying to build the best implementation of Java tools and Java run-time platform. We are giving developers a choice between developing for the Java platform and the Windows platform. You can write Java code that takes advantage of Windows, or write Java code that takes advantage of only the Java platform.

InfoWorld: Most of the industry perceives Java as a standard, certainly a de facto standard, but the impression is that Microsoft does not. Why?

Willis: Java is not a standard and there is no notion of it being so. Perhaps the ISO [International Standards Organization] will approve the Java specification from Sun in the coming months, and so at that point it will be appropriate to call it an international standard. No doubt it is a de facto standard and we are responding to that. We are trying to produce the most compatible implementation of Java. We are definitely going to support it and are building good cross-platform implementations with the Java class libraries and the Java virtual machine.

InfoWorld: What work have you done on building a Universal Virtual machine [UVM]?

Willis: We can’t talk about anything that we are not ready to talk about in detail. It doesn’t help users to talk about prospective plans. But it is certainly ridiculous that you would be confined to using one language to achieve the benefits of Java. We think it would be great if users could use multiple languages to do that. But we do not have any particular project in that area to announce right now. But we are thinking about this issue — the whole industry is. We are looking at a whole range of technical solutions to this problem, as are so many others. (For news on Microsoft’s plans for the Java virtual machine, see “Microsoft plans Java virtual machine for Unix, WinCE by 1998”.)

InfoWorld: Are there any political issues here with JavaSoft? There is nothing that violates your contract for the Java license by doing a UVM?

Willis: No. We try not to let politics interfere with user needs. I am not aware of anything [that violates the licensing contract].

InfoWorld: How do you view IBM’s efforts to build a Universal virtual machine?

Willis: They are doing very much what we are doing in this space. If you look at their announcements, a number of them are about how they are providing class library abstractions of OS/400 CICS, and MVS services and class library extensions of services. They want to give developers the choice of accessing system-specific calls, and that is the philosophy we are adhering to. We are doing exactly the same thing.

InfoWorld: What is your strategy with Java with Internet Explorer 4.0?

Willis: We are building a set of cross-platform libraries called AFCs [Application Foundation Classes] that are very rich and built directly on the programming model for AWT [Abstract Windows Toolkit]. They leverage all your knowledge and code base that you have written in AWG. We have increased the performance of the VM that goes into Internet Explorer, as well as speeded up garbage collection by one-third. We have added things like base security using the Authenticode signature format so it can issue certificates shipped, a beta of Enterprise Class Libraries, which give Java programmers access to existing Enterprise infrastructure like COM [Component Object Model].

InfoWorld: Where does this perception come from that Microsoft is not going along with the rest of the industry on Java?

Willis: Certainly it is in Sun’s best interest to portray us being isolated from the rest of the industry. But in fact, Microsoft is really a rallying point for the PC industry. We have 2,000 manufacturers that ship Windows, 4,500 peripheral devices support our Plug and Play, and there are 20,000 Windows apps. For Sun to be viable, apparently they need to diminish Microsoft’s influence and its reputation among its customers. So clearly Sun’s strategy is to draw as much attention to Microsoft as possible and we think that is a good thing for us.

Java is an appropriate solution for many users’ technical requirements. You need to sacrifice functionality and performance in order to achieve cross-platform, then that is a great solution. We do not view it as competitive with Windows, absolutely not.

We think of Java much in the way we think of FoxPro: It is a thing that lets developers target multiple platforms. It is something that is needed in the marketplace, for sure. And it is certainly the most viable proposition to come out like this in a long time. If you look at who is developing for Java, more than half the big names are buil ding Windows apps with their Java code.

InfoWorld: What is the mood at Microsoft over Java vs. Windows?

Willis: What is often hard for people to understand about Microsoft is how much we respect the whole concept of pluralistic vigorous debate. I have been here for eight years and much of that time I have spent in shouting matches. We think that results in better decisions, given the competitive nature of our market. I wouldn’t trade that aspect of our corporate culture for anything because it is that kind of aggressive intellectual debate that is needed. No one in this company is confused about how important Windows is to our industry, and users, and to our company.

InfoWorld: What do your users tell you they want from you on Java?

Willis: I think our large accounts want to know how to integrate Java into their existing infrastructure. Sun’s message to corporate accounts leaves a lot to be desired. The message is, “rip and replace.” If you look at all their enterprise announcements, they all depend on a pure Java infrastructure. There is no notion in those announcements about how Java developers can leverage existing applications software.

If you look at users’ investments, there is one for hardware and one for software. The software investment is a lot more expensive to replace, because that is what is running their businesses. So our message to them is, we will integrate with your existing software investment, build on it, and integrate new distributed computing solutions on top of it. They are two very different approaches. “Rip and replace” just doesn’t work for our users.

InfoWorld: Do you see Java’s momentum slowing down Windows?

Willis: If you look at Windows momentum, it has gone up in the last six months. Our run rate has gone up dramatically since Windows NT 4.0 shipped, both in terms of unit share and dollars. The Windows market share is at an all-time high. We are shipping more Windows [NT servers] than all Unix servers combined. There appears to be a serious disconnect between what the media perceives Java’s momentum to be and what the companies on the ground are actually buying and developers are coding [for].